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reservoirdubs
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Joined: April 07, 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Calgary (pronounced Calgree)
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 Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: Single quiet pack vs. Dual quiet pack or ??? |
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I'm building a type 1 engine for my late bay and have an exhaust question.
The engine is a 2275 with DRD L5 heads, 40X35.5 valves, compression around 8.2-8.4:1, 40idfs. I want to run a 1 1/2 inch heaterbox/header exhaust, and I'm wondering if I'll notice any difference between using a single quiet pack vs. dual quiet pack exhaust. I haven't found many exhausts out there in the 1 1/2 inch size. I'm leaning towards Tri-Mil as a supplier right now (1009D). Has anyone run this exhaust on their late bay?
Thoughts? Recommendations? |
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sactojesse
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Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13306
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Jesse, there is a muffler shop on auburn near madison, that will make what you want. There used to be a good one on Fulton near tognotti's that would do anything as well. Go in on a day they arent busy, have them put it on the lift and tell them what you want. They will make it and it will be less than any off the shelf unit. they don't like to do vw headers from scratch, but if you bring it in they will do everything else
This kind of goes for everyone. find a local muffler shop, they have all the bends and mufflers you could imagine, and will make it work. Don't short change yourself by trying to buy off the shelf.
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reservoirdubs
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Calgary (pronounced Calgree)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Its interesting. On the Tri-Mil site, it's listed at 1 1/2. On the SoCalImports page, it's listed at 1 3/8.
Which is it? |
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15332
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Just curious, what cam are you running?
I would suggest at least a 1 1/2" Bugpack exhaust with the big Mundo muffler for that size engine.
If you choose dual exhaust you must run hanger mounts at each end to support the weight or they will crack and break off with normal driving and road vibrations.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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sactojesse
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Erik G wrote: |
Jesse, there is a muffler shop on auburn near madison, that will make what you want. There used to be a good one on Fulton near tognotti's that would do anything as well. Go in on a day they arent busy, have them put it on the lift and tell them what you want. They will make it and it will be less than any off the shelf unit. they don't like to do vw headers from scratch, but if you bring it in they will do everything else
This kind of goes for everyone. find a local muffler shop, they have all the bends and mufflers you could imagine, and will make it work. Don't short change yourself by trying to buy off the shelf. |
Yeah, I may end up doing that if I decide I simply can't take the looks and sound of the Mondo. Yes, it's ugly and loud. 
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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reservoirdubs
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Calgary (pronounced Calgree)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm going to be running a DRD 280 (280 duration 444 lift). More than likely 1.25 rockers. |
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nobuggybob
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Joined: October 31, 2008
Posts: 415
Location: Monument Co.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Danny @ KYMCO has the 1-1/2" system that are flanged at the heater box. Bolted right up to my 1-1/2" heater boxes from Cip.
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sactojesse
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| reservoirdubs wrote: |
Its interesting. On the Tri-Mil site, it's listed at 1 1/2. On the SoCalImports page, it's listed at 1 3/8.
Which is it? |
I must have been looking at the SoCalImports page. Even if it is 1 1/2", it looks like it is intended to be used with the stock un-flanged heater boxes and the collector is not a true merged collector. I think you'd get better flow with the Bugpack Streetmax or A-1 Sidewinder, both of which use merged collectors.
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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Hophead
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Joined: January 03, 2005
Posts: 940
Location: Chico,Ca
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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My Kymco 1 1/2" heaterbox system had some bad flange alignment issues with the heaterboxes.
I called and asked them to have a chat with whomever supplies them with their heater boxes as they do all the flange welding inside the tube reducing it down more like 1 1/8". I ended up grinding down the inside and doing the weld external like it was on the header which was flawless.
I hated to have to blow through the nice E coat on the outside to weld but for my hipo build paying for an 1 1/2" system and having half of it pinched down was going to cause the motor to run hot. And unfortuneatly there are not alot of options out there.
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70' Beetle Pan off Resto
2110cc
82 X 90.5
P&P 043 40x35.5
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FK-8
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txoval
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Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3571
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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In the "How to Hot Rod VW's" book (yes it's old)they dynoed various mufflers with a header system. The single quiet pack performed just a good as a dual quiet pack.
Also, remember that exhaust headers are measured Outside Diameter (OD).
1-1/2" header really has 1-3/8" opening... |
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[email protected]
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Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4866
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bugpack 2558 Dual Quietpack for the 2008/2008-11 Merged Headers will fit the Streetmax System on a Type 1, but I'm not sure for a Type 2. Just about everyones heaterbox system uses a 1 1/2 heaterbox, then a 1 5/8 back halfed header, which I think is kind of strange. Berg, or Kymco have the full 1 1/2 systems, but I'm not sure what muffler system will work with them. |
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sactojesse
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Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| The Bugpack 2558 Dual Quietpack for the 2008/2008-11 Merged Headers will fit the Streetmax System on a Type 1, but I'm not sure for a Type 2. |
Are you sure about that? I know their catalog says it fits, but I have tried the Bugpack 2558-13 (ceramic coated 2558) and it didn't fit my Streetmax system. 
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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reservoirdubs
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Joined: April 07, 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Calgary (pronounced Calgree)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:46 am Post subject: |
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The merged headers don't work with heaterboxes, do they? I thought the headers were different from each other, merged and regular.
Who makes the Kymco header?
Has anyone experience with the superflow Vintage speed stuff? |
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bugnut68
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Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 4180
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| txoval wrote: |
In the "How to Hot Rod VW's" book (yes it's old)they dynoed various mufflers with a header system. The single quiet pack performed just a good as a dual quiet pack.
Also, remember that exhaust headers are measured Outside Diameter (OD).
1-1/2" header really has 1-3/8" opening... |
That book pre-dated quiet pack mufflers; it was published in 1970 and the QP mufflers didn't come along until the mid '70s, circa '74 if memory serves me correct.
In more recent times, the value of dual QPs goes up with more extreme engine performance modifications. A bone stock engine or mild build, for example, benefits from a single QP more than a dual muffler set up, due to the lower air velocity of exhaust gases. An engine with better flowing heads will benefit more from dual mufflers. |
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sactojesse
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Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| reservoirdubs wrote: |
| The merged headers don't work with heaterboxes, do they? I thought the headers were different from each other, merged and regular. |
"Merged" has to do with the shape of the collector, irrespective of whether the system was designed to accommodate heater boxes. There are merged systems that work with high-flow heaterboxes like the 1 1/2" Dansk units, such as the Bugpack Streetmax (and similar systems sold by CB Performance and Kymco) and the A-1 Sidewinder. Here's a photo of a merged collector I found in the gallery.
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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nobuggybob
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Joined: October 31, 2008
Posts: 415
Location: Monument Co.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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AL's makes makes Kymco's headers
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[email protected]
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Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4866
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| sactojesse wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| The Bugpack 2558 Dual Quietpack for the 2008/2008-11 Merged Headers will fit the Streetmax System on a Type 1, but I'm not sure for a Type 2. |
Are you sure about that? I know their catalog says it fits, but I have tried the Bugpack 2558-13 (ceramic coated 2558) and it didn't fit my Streetmax system. |
It's getting dark in the pic, but the 2558 is what I have on my Super with the Streetmax Heaterbox System.
| sactojesse wrote: |
| reservoirdubs wrote: |
| The merged headers don't work with heaterboxes, do they? I thought the headers were different from each other, merged and regular. |
"Merged" has to do with the shape of the collector, irrespective of whether the system was designed to accommodate heater boxes. There are merged systems that work with high-flow heaterboxes like the 1 1/2" Dansk units, such as the Bugpack Streetmax (and similar systems sold by CB Performance and Kymco) and the A-1 Sidewinder. Here's a photo of a merged collector I found in the gallery. |
If what you're asking is if a 2008 header can be modified to work with the heaterboxes, no. The merged systems have the 1/3 cylinder pipes route under the cylinders, while the systems like the Streetmax Header route the 1/3 pipes out wider under the heads. |
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reservoirdubs
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Joined: April 07, 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Calgary (pronounced Calgree)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Does Kymco have a website? |
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nobuggybob
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Joined: October 31, 2008
Posts: 415
Location: Monument Co.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think so? Here is there 1-1/2 merged with heater box flange set up
[/img]
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